I believe very strongly in women supporting women. Not in everything mind you, I certainly don’t support women serial killers or women puppy kickers, but as an overall and very generalized worldview, I think we as women should stick together. I like to call this “sisterhood solidarity” because I really like alliteration and also it makes it sound like we are all members of a really covert and subversive resistance organization and that’s just kind of neat.
One of the main tenants of sisterhood solidarity is that we don’t disseminate harmful stereotypes and supposed truths about women. I mean, we know it’s some bullshit, so why perpetuate it? I’m talking about things like “Women aren’t good at math”, “All women want to get married”, and “A woman isn’t fulfilling her biological purpose if she doesn’t have kids.” This is some grade-A fresh from the bull type of bullshit. Sure, some women may not be good at math, but I know loads more who absolutely dominate it, and I know dozens of women who are genuinely uninterested in getting married, and I certainly don’t think any of us are biological failures if we can’t or choose not to have children. So hey, let’s stop saying shit like this? Ok?
Pardon my soapbox standing but I feel like it’s crucial we keep reminding each other it’s not ok for us to say things like this and it’s certainly not ok for us to allow things like this to be said to us. To be honest, I didn’t realize we needed to be reminded of this until I overheard this conversation at lunch the other day. A woman was sitting at the table next to mine with three men who were clearly her co-workers and they were having a discussion about dating and relationships; this is that conversation. (Paraphrased obviously because I don’t go around carrying tape recorders so I can record people’s insulting conversations. That would be creepy or at the very least creepy adjacent.)
Woman: You know what they say, “Single for a season or single for a reason.”
Male Co-Worker 1: I don’t even know what that means.
Woman: It means if you know a girl and she has been single for more than six months, there is a reason for it. She’s probably screwed up, crazy, ugly, fat, or all of it.
Male Co-Worker 2: True.
Male Co-Worker 1: Yeah, that seems wrong. I don’t think that’s true at all.
Woman: Trust me, I’m a Woman, it’s true. If they’re not crazy and single they’re probably ugly and single.
(Please note at this point I almost threw-up my delicious tacos because my body was having a physical reaction to her bullshit)
Male Co-Worker 1: That’s a really terrible thing to say.
Woman: Seriously, you take any girl who has been single for more than six months, give her some therapy, get her a gym membership, new clothes, and a facial and she’ll get a boyfriend instantly.
Male Co-Worker 3: Because she will feel better about herself?
Woman: No. Because she will look better to other people.
Male Co-Worker 1: This seems incredibly superficial.
Woman: Women are vain. It just is. And men won’t even give a girl a chance if she doesn’t look hot.
Male Co-Worker 2: That’s true.
Male Co-Worker 1: This is a truly awful conversation.
Male Co-Worker 3: Agreed.
Woman: I’m just telling the truth. People don’t like to hear it anymore but it’s still the truth. All women want to get married and have kids and in order to get that they need to be pretty.
Are you kidding me woman??! Are you fucking kidding me?! I can not believe you are saying things like this and I really can’t believe you’re completely ignoring the man sitting at your table telling you this is insanity. Who are you and why do you hate yourself and other women? Why? Oh my sweet Athena, why?! I just can’t….I don’t even……what the….but….she…and then….women….wrong…..can’t…..blurg. I’m sorry y’all, I might be having a rage-induced stroke. All I can say is, how about a little solidarity in the sisterhood??
Can I get an Amen? Or at least, can you tell me what provokes women to talk about women like this? Because I’m at a loss……
– Mae
A Confederacy of Spinsters 
Words do not express the extent to which I am angry about this! I cannot . . . they should not . . . totally speechless.
Amen Kate. Amen.
That is a shocking conversation. It would have taken a ton of strength to not assert my own thoughts. A woman that talks about other women so negative is really messed up.
Holy shitballs. So frightening that there are people who perpetuate the stereotype. So thankful that there are strong, confident women who hear this shit and are equally as outraged.
~j
I don’t know is this comment throws me into the “i hate my own kind” category, but she just sounds like someone who’s had her bf stolen from her many a time and has a chip on her shoulder about all women. She obviously thinks all worth is based on having a man in her life so really, I don’t hate her, I just pity her and look down on her and thank my lucky stars I’m not of that breed.
That’s not a bad way to look at it actually…
A-bloody-men. (As for the women vs maths comments, a brief lesson on Sonya Kovalevskaya may be in order.)
Thank you sister!
AMEN SISTA!
I’ve been singleish for the most part for 4 years and I’m not crazy and I like to think I’m quite pretty and pretty damn awesome, I just move around a lot.
If I ever ran into her again, I would cooter-punt her….. Yes I mean that too.
Ok, “cooter-punt” may be my favorite new term. 😉
I’m in my 40’s … been in relationships n out of them… but have never wanted or felt the need to be appended to anyone. I enjoy my aloneness and the freedom it gives me… so Amen to all that you’ve said and yeah Power to us girls!
Amen indeed! Thanks for reading!
I believe some women simply want to be alone and we must respect their choice. Being single does not make us any less inferior than those who chose to get married and have kids.
I enjoy my aloneness and the freedom it gives me… – Good for you, Averil! 🙂 Here’s to a happy and content life!
“I certainly don’t think any of us are biological failures if we can’t or choose not to have children”
If a woman is unable to bear children, she’s been dealt a crappy hand. My condolences. If a woman voluntarily chooses to not have children, she’s shooting herself in the foot. You think her grandmothers want her to ruin the survival of their bloodline? No. Why do you think grandmothers used to always harp, “When are you gonna settle down and raise a family?” They understood only the survival of the species matters; the rest is incidental.
Woman and co-worker 2 live in reality and co-workers 1 and 3 are deluded. Woman doesn’t hate herself, she understands men and how we think. Truth hurts.
Haha! Thanks, I needed a laugh, because obviously you’re joking.
facepalm
What’s unfortunate is that there are fewer and fewer intelligent people who are choosing not to breed, or choosing to limit their breeding, leaving people like Women-need-to-be-pretty-and-have-babies-Woman and Peacemaker to fill the void out of some imagined biological “imperative” to overpopulate the planet.
Goodness! Well I’ve been single for nearly 3 years now and all I’ve got out of it is a massive amount of ambition, more common sense and a shit load of achievements. That’s it really…… London (and a lot of the world!) is full of awful people that think like this. Men and women. It’s refreshing to read about people that have the same views as me and a lot of women around me. Here here! x
We’re in it together! Good on you for being such a strong and independent woman!
3 years! Wow… I hope you don’t mind my asking but… Have you dated anyone during those three years? I’ve been single for the longest time and I’ve dated just one guy recently but that’s done and over with now.
Nope, not “the truth”, lady. She just set us back about 60 years. Ew.
As a (twice) married (step) mother – there are days I wish I had more freely embraced my singlehood. I love my husband – I love my kids…..but…..there are days I wish for the freedom to do what *I* want to do for a change.
I envy those that take the road less traveled and thumb their noses towards the beliefs verbalized in your blog by the other woman. Stay strong my *single* sisters!!
Stay strong my *single* sisters!! – Speaking as one of those “single sisters”… Thank you! 🙂 It can be quite a battle sticking to your guns for wanting to remain single. Not everyone understands this certain choice made by some women.
I’ve made that choice and stand by it. It just feels natural. I’d had a lot of cheaters in my life. And when they cheat, they lie about it, so, cheaters n’ liars. Life is just more peacful without having someone else walk in the door in a bad mood and want to bring you down with them. No one criticizing you or trying to win a power match, either. The only thing I miss about being a fully confirmed Spinster is someone to mow the lawn. ((shrug)) but you can hire kids to do that for you 😀
Here here! I whole heartedly second, third, fourth, whatever this post. I have this theory about the sisterhood… if we women could learn to support and be there for each other in the way we usually expect men to be (but, alas, the poor men in our lives cannot be what our sisters can be for us, and expecting them to be is frustrating for everyone involved), we would not be so dependent on a man for validation, and would feel more empowered to dismiss any man who mistreats us. This would raise the bar for the men in our lives, and shift society back to a matriarchal power structure, which, given the current state of the world, might be better for everyone….
Ah, it’s all right! More and more women will be relising in the years to come that they are individuals that are free to make decisions for themselves. They’ll catch up soon.
The woman mentioned in the conversation seems like she was very eager to show that she’s ‘down with the boys’, a sad attempt to be liked and accepted by others.
I’m subscribing, your blog makes me nod my head in approval and giggle to the harsh-but-funny bits 🙂
I don’t understand women like that either…and I would totally date the lone sane man at the table, even if he’s old and ugly, because smart is sexy!
You know the irony in the conversation between the woman and the men? That the men were the ones who seem to have a more solid grasp of reality. That woman… Gawd! How can she judge our gender like that? It’s true that society expects us to settle down and pro-create but now we women have the luxury to choose how we want to live our lives. And I think it’s incredible that more and more women are becoming independent and single by choice. By choice and not just because she’s ugly or crazy.
Congrats on not throwing up while hearing their conversation! If I were in your shoes, I’d have coughed and coughed and coughed during those moments that woman made such awful, awful points. Lol.
I may be missing an inside joke or something, but “opinions” is spelled wrong in the subtitle of this blog. Sorry, I hate to be the guy who corrects your spelling, but I thought I’d point it out.
Oh, holy bejeezus. Thanks for pointing it out. In other news, let’s officially install an 11th commandment, shall we? Thou Shalt Not Design Blog Headers After Midnight. Ever.
Thanks for catching that, Chodorov.
She wants to show how “with it” she is by “understanding men” (as superficial ass-wipes who only date women based on their looks) and human relations – as if human society has not progressed from caveman days where the main imperative was to eat, fuck and birth (which, still, I’m sure were more complex than I’m giving them credit for).
Appalling, but there’s hope, Male Co-workers 1 and 3 are fabulous!
That woman’s got major superficial views on all womankind. How awful.
Amen. Keep up the good work!
Ugh! I wish I could high-five that woman on the face!
Not sure how I came across this blog – don’t really this it is for a thirty something male, but it made me think of that Madeleine Albright quote: “there’s a special place in hell for women who don’t help other women.”
Excuse me?
Are you on drugs?
Madeleine Albright?
You mean THE Madeleine Albright?
You know what you should take out of that conversation? That the male colleagues were probably nearly as shocked as you were. She’s doing herself no favours! She’s no where near the sisterhood, right?
You gals (using this ironically, don’t freak out) are great…but as you get a bit older you’ll see too many women full of this self-hating shit trying to cram you into their miserable little boxes. I never had kids and never wanted them. I was single til I was 30 and then married a handsome doctor (win!) who cheated and walked out two years later. Ooops! Finally remarried this year, at 54, after 11 years deciding if he was a keeper.
The best thing women can do (and you’re doing it) is find a smart, cool, fun posse who will tell you when you’re full of shit but support your choices, conventional or not.
Whenever the word “normal” is used, I sub. in the word “conventional”. Which is shorthand for zzzzzzzzz.
I think someone who has that much vitriol towards other women really loathes herself… or the complete opposite: she is so sure of herself and the truth of her beliefs that there is no hope of reasoning with her.
That’s probably true- unfortunately, reason doesn’t always prevail.
AMEN! Caroline Bingley at the lunch table over there needs a smack upside the head. When other ladies talk like that, I never know if they are secretly excluding themselves from the “all women blah blah blah” tirade, or if they actually see themselves that way, hate it, and thus pigeonhole and character-assassinate all women over it.
Oh my God. I just almost died from laughter at the Caroline Bingley reference. You are so spot-on, Tara! She is exactly whom this twit reminds me of!
I find it intriguing that one loud voice with a false sense of security is labeled as the bad apple that ruins the whole bunch. After all, she is easily identifiable and provokes an immediate and opposite reaction. One can simply dismiss her verbal diarrhea and continue on her way completely comfortable in her own skin and confident in her choices. Personally, I find the subtleties of certain behaviours (that fake orgasm) and the superwoman complex, that quest for perfection while juggling household chores, children and career to be much more hurtful to the cause. I admit that I’ve secretly longed for that idea of “brotherhood” to extend to female relationships. We are in need of a “sisterhood”, one in which we applaud and support one another instead of vying to be the queen of all.
You make some very good points and I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, she was a good example of things I’ve heard other women repeat over and over and not just one bad apple. I wish she was the only one and that it was easy to dismiss her, sadly, that’s not the case.
Reminds me of an ocassion I was having a work-related discussion with my boss (male) and a female of a different area. We were having a 100% normal and 100% work related discussion. I can be a little stubborn on some occasions, and maybe I was, and this is how it went:
Me: – you are wrong, I’m right, bla bla bla
Her: (to my boss) – you must forgive her, it’s one of those days-of-the-month.
Me: – WHAT????
Boss: – No, its ok Vale, she’s just defending her view.
Her: – Every woman should be forgiven a little more when she’s having her period. She es entitled to be moody.
How I hated her!!!! I want to be judged for my work!!! WTF is that abaut making my boss comments about what time of the month it F…ING is!!!
Ladies, whenever you feel the urge at work to put menstruation as en excuse for anything, please bite your tongue.
Amen! Amen! Amen! It would have been difficult for me not to verbally tear her to shreds in that moment.
I am going to get up everyday and be thankful I found this blog. Thank you, thank you.
Guaranteed she was trying to seem cool and dismissive of her gender to the coworkers. I feel like she failed, miserably.
Amen!! Thanks for discovering why some men actually believe that ALL woman want to get married and have kids, jeez, talking about backstabbing! Great post!
So true… Another thing I cringe at is women calling other women “skanks” or “sluts”…. That stuff is cruel, people!
Yeah. The C-word is so much better anyway.
KIDDING!!
Amen.
She probably had a mother once who asked her if she was a lesbian only because she hadn’t had a beau in three months… Hate that.
On the other hand… if I were a woman who didn’t want to get married- the feminism of male co-worker #1 just might change my mind. 😀
I’ve been accused of being a lesbian by family before (not to my face of course) just because I’ve never had a boyfriend. At least they didn’t discriminate because they said the same thing of a male cousin. It just made me laugh, because these are the same people who will probably end up killing themselves when their spouse dies because they can’t stand being single & no one else is going to put up with them.
Amen sister. I’ve been single for all 26 years of my life (because I don’t count going on a date or two as being in a relationship) & there’s nothing wrong with me. Unless by “wrong” you mean I have enough sense & self-respect to not (apologies if this sounds crude) spread my legs for the first guy who so much as smiles in my direction.
That conversation was painful just reading, I can’t imagine how bad it was to hear. The only good part was at least two of the guys didn’t seem to believe it. But we should probably feel bad for that lady. She had to get these ideas from somewhere, which means someone (mom, dad, boyfriend, whatever) has pounded into her head that her only worth comes from being attached to a man & that for that to happen she has to be a vapid little Barbie doll. I’m grateful that there have been women in my life (particularly my mom, but also friends, teacher & women from church) who supported me in whatever I do & that if I have to pretend to be something I’m not to impress someone they’re not worth knowing.
welll…I kinda both agree and disagree, this girl quite obviously wanted to impress with her opinions and failed miserably but…there is reality in what she was saing…
I am single for 3 years now, sometimes happily single, sometimes absolutely miserably single
I would love to be in loving, deep relationship but…
“Women are vain. It just is. And men won’t even give a girl a chance if she doesn’t look hot.”
I’m 38 and not as hot as I used to be ;p
and yes, my standarts are too high too, so I wouldn’t go for guy who is only giving a chance to “hot girls” BUT saing that…would I go for unfit man, with big belly and hairy back?
NEVER!!
even if he is the sweetest, most intelligent guy in the world
am I vain? maybe
but if I want some standarts I have to meet them
and maybe this girl based her opinion on thousands of DESPERATE singles that DO NOT WANT TO BE SINGLE, that are planning marriage after 3rd date (and names for kids), that cling to any man that shows any interest…etc etc
how many singles like this do you know?
the name is Legion :p
and how many seriously happy ones that really DON’T WANT relationship?
maybe few…
I love being single and I love being in relationship but for now it is as my surcomstances as my choice that define my singlesness …
geeez, spelling as much as circumstance is choice, sorry
Don’t women turn on each other with all the frequency of a cheap ham radio?
At least that’s what I’ve observed in my 41 years on this Earth.
Hoes before bros!
chicks before d****s
Love it!
Amen
Amen! I went online recently and saw a comment thread on some pictures I was looking at of Kim K. (Don’t judge me… she’s pretty.) Anywayyy, I was apalled! Women were saying the most horrible things about her body and sexuality. I’m not her biggest fan per se, but why throw around heinous names and stereotypes?
Im not sure why some women just hate other women. Or why I am surprised at that kind of behavior. From the time I was in high school, and then sorority in college, and even in my workplace now, I witness that same behavior all of the time and it always amazes me.
I’m not single, but i’m not married. Been dating the same guy for 7 years. I get the same kind of tags from people. I got tired a long time ago trying to defend myself to narrow minded people. They can think or say what they want. Most of the time it’s because they are unhappy with the way their own life turned out
I think you’re probably right, there is a lot of personal dissatisfaction that goes into people treating others like this. Not just with women, but with everyone.
I agree!!
How about hearing a women tell a group of guys, “I had a c-section so…my vagina is still tight!” wow!!!!! Unlike, say women who had regular delivery??? And why is this a conversation topic?
Talk about trying to put down your home girls. As if these men are so important you have to step over and insult other women in hopes that they will pick you!!
This is the life of a female. Think, why do women wear makeup and men don’t? Women feel that they need to put down other women to make themselves more desirable. Where does this come from??? If I knew, I would write a book about it!
Thank you for this great post! All women should go forward talking about their own good qualities and never put down other women by doing so.
Agreed! There is no need to put other women down in order to make yourself look better.
Hey y’all! I just wanted to say I know I didn’t get a chance to respond to everyone’s comment but I appreciate all of them and am so stoked on the conversations taking place. Thank you!
Xx
Mae
I’m going to take from that conversation that the woman is married, and we should all say a little prayer for that poor man.
Haha! You know, I don’t think I glanced at her ring finger but my guess would be the same as yours. 😉
OMFG. I’m so appalled that this actually happened. Having worked for a company where the men were pigs, at least the women were generally supportive of each other. I can’t imagine working with this b*tch.